 Catching Up With Vassiliy Jirov
Q&A by Jack Dunne (July 19, 2004)
Photo © HoganPhotos.com
 Send this page to friend Give us your feedback
MaxBoxing's Jack Dunne talks one-on-one with one of the game's very best, Vassiliy Jirov, 1996 Olympic Gold Medal winner and four year champion of the cruiserweight division, about Joe Mesi, the chilling aftermath of that contest, training tactics involving vicious attack dogs and James Toney's recent actions in a very candid and open conversation.
Jack Dunne: You were born and raised in Balgash, Kazakhstan. You won the Gold medal at the ‘96 games in Atlanta, Georgia at the age of 22. During your brief stay in America and after you won the gold you decided to stay in the United States and eventually moved to Arizona, where you turned pro and have resided ever since. What influenced your decision to become an America citizen and how did you wind up in Arizona?
Vassiliy Jirov: Through my ex-promoter Bob Arum I was offered three places to stay - Los Angeles, Las Vegas and Phoenix. When I came out to check out these places... I just don't like big cities, I don't like big scenes, I like the quiet places and for me Phoenix was the best place of the three... And actually when I moved to Phoenix, a week or two later I met my wife so that was another thing, my future wife was there.
JD: (laughing) I am guessing she had more than just a bit of influence on the decision to keep you there as well... Alex Apachinsky brought you up through the amateur ranks...
VJ: Apachinsky (affirming Dunne's pronunciation)
JD: Yeah, that was one I was a bit worried about, good to know that I nailed the pronunciation right. Thanks for the affirmation. Anyway Apachinsky is the coach of the well known, well-respected Kazakhstan National Boxing Team. Why didn't you return and stay with Alex after you turned pro?
VJ: Why didn't I go back to Kazakhstan?
JD: Yes.
VJ: Because I had my goals. I am an individual guy, I am not a part of somebody else's goals, and I am about my goals. When I set out something to do, I finish it. I never give up until I finish it.
JD: I certainly understand that but more to the point I am trying to get at specifically. I'm wondering why you and Alex split after you turned pro? Was it simply a geographical thing where you moved to the United States and it just wasn't possible?
VJ: The thing is, Alex was with me for a few months but it was hard for him to adjust. Alex didn't speak English and his family was in another country so it was very hard. It would be like if you were from... Nicaragua and you wound up in Russia. You couldn’t speak English, you couldn't speak Russian and you are just wondering all the time what people are saying... And it is tough. You think 'Am I by myself?' It is crazy.
I was with my wife and I was going to stay. I was with Alex for a long time, he was like a second father and when I came here by myself it was like what am I, crazy? But no, it was something I was doing for myself and after a month went by and then, two, three and four, I became more and more sure that I was going to stay in America.
And it was tough for me; I didn't speak any English. I just came to this country and said 'OK, I am going to put my all into it' and what ever happens... I believe in God and I believe that everything happens for a purpose and to better my life.
JD: Speaking of the man you referred to as a 'father figure'. I read that one of Alex's training methods was to give you a five-foot head start and then have you chased down a narrow hallway by a trained attack dog, a German Shepherd! There was a door on the other side that you had to get through. Is that true? (laughing)
VJ: It's true. It was cutthroat man, but whatever Alex did, I feel thankful for it because it made me stronger, made my mind stronger. At the time I was a 16 or 17 year-old guy and it was this big, vicious dog coming after me and I had to protect myself.
JD: Ya' think? (laughing)
VJ: It taught me to become strong of mind. My brain would be like... scared but I had to deal with it no matter what.
JD: Look, I get why fighters work out on a speed bag, I understand roadwork and I even understand why fighters skip rope. I can see the direct relationship to boxing... But an attack dog? Man... Exactly how does that translate into anything that can help you in a boxing ring?
VJ: You know, when that dog bites the rope, you have to have enough strength to pull the rope from its teeth and that dog was pretty big! You had to use both hands, you had to have the strength to do it and it was a muscle workout, you had to have the strength in your legs but you had to be careful that when you did manage to get the rope from the dog that he didn't jump on you.
JD: A vicious attack dog jumping on you? No thanks, I'll pass. I didn't even know about that one man, I was just fishing for info about what it was like to just 'run' from that dog (laughing). So, did that dog ever catch you?
VJ: When I was pulling the rope from him? No he never caught me.
JD: What about when you were running from it down that hall? Did the dog ever catch you there?
VJ: When I was in the hallway? Yes he caught me.
JD: Oh God (laughing)
VJ: Yeah, I wasn't too fast some times.
JD: You know, I used to think that Michael Moorer locking him self in a dark basement for days at a time before a big fight was the weirdest training practice I had ever heard of but on the strength of danger alone, the dog story... I think you just topped Moorer. Congratulations.
VJ: Thank you. But you know what, my trainer used that tool to make me stronger, faster and tougher. Alex had read in a book before he started using the dog that some American fighter did the same thing only he used a leopard or a cheetah I think or some other dangerous wild animal.
JD: (laughing) I can see this just keeps getting better doesn't it?
VJ: He used the same training tactics and used the animal to build strength. Alex read about it and was thinking about it, there weren't animals like that in Kazakhstan so he thought about it and he used a German Shepherd attack dog instead.
JD: (laughing) Oh God, you're telling me that it could have been even worse? That is absolutely a great story man. Changing topics, you recently left the cruiserweight division. When you and James Toney left, you were the division's best two fighters. What is your opinion of the division now that you and Toney have left?
VJ: I like the division, I like it a lot. My biggest thing about that is that I want a rematch with James Toney because I still think that I won the fight. I think I proved it and this time I want to prove it better.
JD: Hey, speaking as a fan, you and James can fight each other every weekend for all I care and I'll watch it every time! As a fan, I'd love to see that rematch.
VJ: You got it!
JD: I recently spoke to Chris Thomas, a rising contender in the cruiserweight division and when I asked him about the obscurity of the cruiserweight division compared to the heavy and light heavyweight divisions, Chris told me that the reason guys from light heavy will jump right to heavyweight and bypass cruiser isn't because the division is lacking but rather that it is too stacked. You ruled that division for a very long time but you are no longer there. Is the division that stacked or is the bulk of the division's talent fighting at heavyweight?
VJ: You know, there are some very good cruiserweights out there, some pretty good guys. I fought guys and had to really push myself in order to win the fight. And I will tell you this too. There are a lot of guys there that just aren't big enough to fight at heavyweight but that doesn't mean they can't fight. They just may not have the size or power to compete at heavyweight. Everyone has a different perspective on the division.
I stayed there because I liked the division but now that I am older and bigger, it became very hard to make the weight and so I moved up.
JD: You proved that you were big enough, strong enough to fight at heavyweight when you faced Joe Mesi. Though Joe may have had a significant weight edge on you going in, beyond that you two guys stacked up pretty evenly and we will definitely be talking about that fight later on, but changing subjects a bit, you have fought in two very high profile fights in just over a year's time, James Toney and Joe Mesi. You lost those fights but the showings emphasized the fact that you are an exciting, crowd-pleasing fighter. Do you feel the losses to Toney and Mesi helped you or hurt you?
VJ: Well first of all I don't feel like I did lose to them but if someone says I lost to them, that is their feelings. My feelings are that I am a champion no matter what. I don't care about what some people say or feel because I know that I am a good fighter...
JD: That's an understatement.
VJ: It doesn't matter what they think. I just make the best of it and I move forward.
JD: Talk about the contest against Mesi. Joe had never been in with a southpaw of note before you, certainly nobody of your caliber, but Joe had a lot of success early on. The southpaw jinx didn't seem to faze Joe a bit. Did that surprise you?
VJ: It did! I didn't do anything at first, my corner was just telling me to 'go kill him' basically...
JD: (laughing)
VJ: I waited for a talk when I got back to the corner but when I got there it was like 'go attack him, go take him out'. I was ready to fight him every round but the fight didn't follow the plan. We were going to take our time, we had a plan before the fight and we were going to follow that plan. Most of the time I went back to my corner and it was 'take him out'.
If you have followed my career, you know that I am usually in brutal fights and then I knock the guy out to win it. This fight I boxed him, boxed him, boxed him.
JD: Without giving up strategy, what would you do differently if you faced Mesi again?
VJ: I'd go after him earlier. A couple rounds maybe three rounds earlier. I don't want to say this but I could have killed the guy and (pause)
JD: (knowing that Jirov was referring to a doctor's account following the Mesi contest where it was speculated, had the contest lasted 30 seconds longer, the results could have been grave) ... Yeah, I heard about that and we will talk about it.
VJ: And I don't want to do anything like that, I just want to win the fight, I don't care about... But if it is to win by killing a person, I don't think so because (pause)
JD: No... no... And I absolutely understand what you are saying. I actually read about that doctor's report you are referring to and we will address that in a minute but getting back to the fight. You turned the tide of that fight in round nine. You knocked down Mesi late in the frame. Mesi has rumored stamina problems, was stamina an issue or was it something else that changed the tide in your favor?
VJ: You lost me, can you explain that one again?
JD: Sure, OK... At the end of round nine, you hurt him. Joe has a rumored stamina problem, he fades off late. Was this a matter of him fading off late or was it something you did late to change the tide of the fight?
VJ: It was the second thing, definitely. I changed the course of the fight. He thought he was in control of the fight but he never knew what my strengths were, he never saw it. He didn't know what I could do.
JD: Round ten, now that's a different story. You roughed Mesi up something fierce in the final frame but to be fair, not all of it was exactly clean. There were some illegal headshots landed, some that landed on the back of the head. Was that incidental or was taking Joe to 'the woodpile' and putting some hurt on him by means, be it fair or unfair, just something that had to be done at that point?
VJ: You know what, if you look at the tape, I never hit him on the back of the head, I hit him on the side of the head.
JD: Right, I guess that would be technically accurate but the shots were illegal.
VJ: He is saying that I hit him on the back of the head but I am not a dirty fighter, watch my fights! I never tried to hit him on the back of the head. Watch my fights, I am a pretty clean boxer and hitting a guy on the back of the head... isn't my style.
JD: No... I know I know that isn't your style, it shouldn't be anybody's style! But boxing is a vicious sport and not everything that goes on during a fight is clean. It is sort of like guys in circle track racing, banging into one another, its part of the game. You have a guy there who is on bad footing; he is wobbling. You can throw a shot and have it land somewhere it wasn't meant to, especially a guy on bad footing; that just happens.
VJ: Yes but I never did it intentionally. I never wanted to do anything like that. My thing was to just win the fight, not kill some guy or damage him for the rest of his life...
JD: No, no, of course not, that's terrible.
VJ: That wasn't my thoughts at all and if you see the fight, nothing was called, nothing was overruled. It was a pretty good fight.
JD: Following the contest, you learned that Mesi had suffered a concussion and later claim to have read a doctor's report which stated, in this doctor's opinion, had the contest gone on another 30 seconds, Joe may have been seriously hurt, possibly killed.
On one hand it is understandable that you might let Joe continue based on the fact that it was a very important fight for both of you guys; Joe is an undefeated fighter, he had built a good lead on points... But putting things into perspective... No matter what kind of window dressing you throw on it, the fight between you and Joe; it was simply an athletic contest. And on the other hand you are talking about a man's life! That being said; should that fight have been stopped?
VJ: I thought it should have been stopped. I thought that it was enough. The guy, after he went down for the second time in round ten, he got up because he is a proud guy, but his mind... his mind wasn't there.
JD: To me it looked like he never really shook off the first knockdown. He was in trouble that entire round.
VJ: Yeah but the second time I put him down, his head was on the floor. And he was in a very bad position and I just thought the fight should have been stopped. But I don't judge nobody, I'm just glad nobody's dead and I am just thinking about the future.
JD: Almost immediately after the contest you issued a challenge to Mesi through the press. Something along the lines of "Hey Joe, I'm ready for round eleven. How about you?" What ever became of that? Did Mesi's team acknowledge it?
VJ: No, nobody ever said anything, nobody ever sent anything back. But I didn't know exactly what was happening with him (referring to allegations Mesi was suffering from a serious ailment) but now I know what is going on and it is up to him.
If he can perform, if he is capable of going back into the ring, if the doctors tell him 'Yes you are OK to fight'... I would like to fight him again; I think it would be a lot of fun. I think a lot of people want to see us fight again.
JD: Mesi... There are contradictory reports out there. Based upon whom you listen to or what you read... That's a bit of a sticky situation and frankly, only Mesi's team knows the truth. I am basing remarks made or questions asked from an optimistic platform, respectful to Joe and taking the man at his word that he is fine.
Certainly nobody in the boxing community wants to see anything bad happen to Joe, that would be terrible. If the Mesi fight doesn't pan out, what other fights interest you?
VJ: You know what, I'd fight anybody, the best heavyweights - champions definitely and a rematch with James Toney. I would like to bring that back to the ring.
JD: I think if you asked James Toney, he would just flat out tell you that he already is the heavyweight champion of the world (laughing). What do you think of James's act since he beat Evander Holyfield?
VJ: (laughing) Well, he (Toney) got him (Holyfield) at a good time you know and he did a pretty good job. Holyfield is old but he still can fight and he can still damage you in the ring so James did a pretty good job there... But an old man is an 'old man' and I am not going to say anything bad about Holyfield; he needs to think about it before he gets into the ring next time.
JD: I agree with you, I respect how you put it but if you won't come out and say it, I will. As a HUGE fan of Holyfield, I don't EVER want to see Evander inside the ring again. That being said, I was more curious as to your comments about the remarks James Toney has been making since that fight? The smack talking.
VJ: (laughing) Well...
JD: And is James Toney really the heavyweight champion? Or does he have to beat YOU at HW in order to be the champ? (laughing)
VJ: (laughing) I think so... You know, he didn't beat me. He never beat me and if you look at that fight, I can prove it 100 times. He never beat me in the cruiserweight division, never!
JD: Is that so? (laughing)
VJ: He was close. He got me down but even after that I got up and I still pushed him back. I got up and I was pushing him back and James... He was running away from me and...
JD: (laughing) Did I just hear you call "Lights Out" a 'runner'? Did I get that right? James was RUNNING from you?
VJ: Sure! And running, backing up! I got knocked down. I was supposed to be the one on defense but HE was the one on defense... And running! I was the one moving forward..
For Questions or Comments
E-Mail Jack Dunne
For Jack Dunne's archives : Click Here
|
