 John Ruiz and More Mail Bag
By Jason Probst (April 22, 2004)
What a difference one fight doesn’t make. Off the heels of his 11th round stoppage of Fres Oquendo Saturday, those who love and hate John Ruiz’ style remain intractable and dead-set in their takes on the WBA heavyweight champ.
Is Ruiz merely the victim of an unfortunate string of coincidences with his fights? Are fans and media overlooking his accomplishments despite the fact that he continues to win? Is Vitali Klitschko the greatest or just the latest? Should you dress like a member of Stryper for your upcoming job interview?
It’s all here in the John Ruiz and More Mail Bag. Read on, and make your own way out the clinches………
MORON!
Your article about Ruiz's fight sounds just as moronic as you must be for writing it.
Not only was it not the worst fight on the card, but you are 100% wrong about Ruiz throwing one punch and then holding. Every hold in that fight was by Oquendo. All you so caller experts say how bad the kid is and how he sucks, but he keeps beating everyone you say will destroy him.
Did you ever think that maybe he has good movement and an awkward style and that is why he is hard to read. And about Tyson, Lewis, or Evander getting in the ring and winning, You must be out of your mind.
Lewis past him over and gave up the belt to fight a terrible Grant. He beat Evander at least two out of three times. And not to mention the first to fights were not boring. And Ruiz did what only one other guy did, knock him down. And Tyson, are you kidding. You must be one of the retards who still ranks him in the top five even though he has done nothing in 12 years.
Bottom line, his fight are sometimes tough to watch, but he can beat anyone out there and he is a two time champ. Jackass.
Jim
Thanks for that penetrating bit of insight Jim. Allow me a pithy moment to correct you on your facts before handing you back the Sceptre Of Ruiz. First, Ruiz is not one of two people to floor Holyfield. Bert Cooper did, Bowe did (3 times), and Toney did too.
Lewis didn’t "past him over," as you so eloquently state. Lennox fought Grant because Grant was was a top ten contender, and worth more money, too. Ruiz was also a Don King fighter, and Lewis wasn’t. Are you suggesting Lewis was afraid of Ruiz? Might lose to him?
I notice you stop short of that premise, because even a Ruiz-iac like yourself knows deep down in your heart that Lewis would’ve beat him. I mean, usually when you accuse a guy of ducking someone that implies you’d pick the duckee over him. But we all know that Ruiz had as much chance against Lewis as the Republican Guard did against the U.S. armed forces.
Ruiz didn’t beat Evander two of three times…I think it was about 1.5 times, tops, considering that Holyfield may have dropped him hard in that second fight with a body shot that Joe Cortez ruled a foul, but might have been legal. And the first two fights sucked ass except for one round in the second where Holyfield was banged around, and Ruiz actually hit him a few times and didn’t clinch. How often do you pull them out of your tape collection and watch them? The third fight was worse than the first two combined. It was like watching porn with two hours of dialogue and no action.
Mike Tyson would beat Ruiz, plain and simple, for the same reason Barry Bonds will be able to hit a 90-mph fastball until he’s 60 years old. He’s a fastball hitter, and Ruiz serves up nothing but fastballs. Tyson could beat him while taking bong hits between rounds.
I find calling Ruiz’ style "awkward" an insult to guys like Kenny Norton who had an awkward style and at least paid homage to the word. "Awkward" in relation to Ruiz’ style is really a nice way of saying he’s got a lot of persistence, and his main asset is reducing the opponent to his level.
As for making the clinches, I know Fres made plenty. He’s culpable as well. So yeah, Ruiz is a two-time champ in a fragmented division. Good for him. But he’s no Tim Witherspoon. I’m tired of seeing him on HBO and PPV dates that completely suck. He can’t beat everyone out there. James Toney would school him, Vitali Klitschko would bounce him off the canvas, and ditto for Mike Tyson, even now. Of course, the way Ruiz handled Roy Jones, those guys must be scared silly like Lewis was.
The first two fights weren’t boring? Only if you had a bet down on Ruiz, they weren’t.
I never picked Rahman, Johnson, Fres or Holyfield to destroy him. None of those guys are punchers, which is exactly why Ruiz has been facing them. Put him in with Vitali, Toney, or Tyson, and I’d agree with that statement. And you’ll never see him face a big puncher unless the guy is with King. Ruiz is the definition of a protected fighter. See for yourself if King tries to unify with Vitali without getting a piece of him.
SAY IT LOUD: "OUIET MAN" DESERVES PROPS
I hate to say this being a true fan of the sport, but you've got to give Ruiz credit for beating the guys he has. If you look at the current Ring magazine ratings - he has not only fought more top ten guys, he has also beaten more top ten guys than anyone else on the list. And then if you bust out previous Ring magazines from the past year you'll find more guys that he knocked off the list.
I know this says more about the current state of the division than it does about Ruiz but the reality is this IS the division right now and Ruiz is actually beating top ten guys. If a good looking young prospect had beaten Holyfield, Johnson, Rahman and Oquendo they probably would be already had been named the heir apparent by HBO, Ring magazine and everyone else.
I know he is painful to watch and he lost to Roy Jones but we ARE talking Roy Jones. Anyone within 5 inches of Roy Jones height is going to lose to him. (I don't think weight is as big a disadvantage to Roy as height is.)
I think Byrd, Brewster, Toney, Sanders and even Tyson would have problems facing Ruiz. They would not be able to execute their offense against him. Guys like Golota, Barrett and the Klitschkos would give him problems because they all fight from the outside. But then again, no one has seemed to be able to execute their offense against Ruiz lately except for Jones Jr. And he's the best fighter in the world.
J Ward
I agree on height being the biggest problem for Roy. I think he’d have a helluva time dealing with Vitali Klitschko but I doubt that fight will ever happen. I agree that Byrd and Sanders would have a tough time vs. Ruiz, but I think James Toney would feast on him. Toney has way too many wrinkles and skills to deal with Ruiz. Tyson would unload on him and brutalize him, even now. On a scale of 1-10, Ruiz rates an 8 or 9 in relative effectiveness against some styles, but a guy who can counterpunch or simply charge HIM and take the play away is going to make him much less effective. Notice how Camp Ruiz has never mentioned getting revenge on David Tua during all these years? They know that if Ruiz isn’t the bigger, stronger guy in the ring, he has no Plan B to fall back on.
NADY PLAYED KEY ROLE IN JONES-RUIZ OUTCOME
Hi, in your last article you mentioned how Jones was the only one to get his way with Ruiz, that is true but I think it goes a little deeper than that. Jones boxed Ruiz’ ass off because ref Jay Nady didn’t take any shit and did his job right (breaking quick and threatening to take points for excess holding).
No one seems to talk about it but if you had a ref that took points and was stern, Ruiz would be gone already. The other way to beat Ruiz is to go at him and out work him on the inside, a fighter in the mold of Tua, Tyson, with power to hurt him will make him fold. The reason Ruiz clinches so much is all in his head (fight inside and make it ugly and rough) after the Tua fight this set in as Ruiz`s envy to be a tough inside guy, he can’t destroy people on the inside so this is the best he can do.
A good pressure fighter with one punch power will walk through him. The others lost by varying degrees of (being a fuck up) Rahman`s got talent but he`s stupid and lazy, Kirk also had no disapline, if Fres would have fought like he did after rd6 and pressed a little harder its no contest, instead he fights a lazy as Ruiz from the start Also Evander was just to dame old to put the kind of pressure needed and didn’t have the punch for bail out. He hits hard but how many KO`s does he have at heavyweight? Anyway-keep up the good work.
Craig
Nady is as good a ref as anyone in the game for two reasons: he doesn’t have a stupid signature line he utters during the stare down, and he doesn’t call fouls according to whether or not the fighter complains. Work enough fights, you’ll have nights where people second-guess you, and Nady’s been criticized for stopping some fights too soon (Gainer-Corrales) while seemingly letting others go too long (the third knockdown in Vargas-Tito was a tad brutal). But Vargas had earned the right to that third knockdown, while Gainer’s eyes were in the back of his head.
Jay Nady doesn’t call a foul when a guy whines. He depends on his own eyes, and he puts a stop to fouling and rough stuff immediately. He did exactly that to Ruiz in the first round against Jones, and it was a far cry from Joe Cortez, who let Holyfield-Ruiz II turn into a WWE match. But even without the quick leash, Jones would always beat Ruiz. Nady was the least of his problems that night.
Ruiz’ style is indeed based on him being the tough guy, the mauler, etc. That’s why I think he’d give Chris Byrd a tough fight, but Vitali Klitschko would tee off on him and Ruiz wouldn’t have much to offer back. He can’t cross the moat against Vitali the way he was in his recent fights. He would get his head handed to him. If he couldn’t bully Jones, how’s he gonna bully Vitali?
RUIZ NO LESS A CHAMP THAN VITALI-SANDERS WINNER
Ruiz has no less reason to be called a heavyweight champion than whoever wins between Vitali and Sanders. Neither of those two have done anything that screams "linear champ." How impressive does Sanders' big career boost, his knockout of Vladimir, look now after the Brewster fight? And Vitali got his face torn up by a fat, old and unmotivated Lennox Lewis to the point that the ring doctor had no choice but to stop it, and he also quit against a 195-pound Chris Byrd. And these are your linear guys while you make fun of Ruiz?
I'd accept an argument where you throw the whole lot of 'em in the trash, but to somehow imply that the real business takes place with Sanders/Klitschko is unfair to Ruiz and Byrd, who have both fought the best guys out there. The only reason they aren't in the linear picture is because Lennox Lewis cowered away from the very real possibililty of losing in an awkward and ugly way to either one of those two guys, and so he smugly dismissed them as "too easy" or fights that "nobody wants to see." What a joke. When he was faced with the possibility of fighting somebody that wouldn't stupidly bullrush him like Tyson did, Lewis quickly forgot that he circled-and-jabbed his way to the top of the division. For Lewis to start acting as though he was safeguarding the type of fight the fans really want to see is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. He's the guy that turned the division into what it is today.
By the way, watch the Ruiz-Oquendo fight again and you'll see that Oquendo intiated the vast majority of the clutches. Ruiz said leading up to the fight that he wanted to make it entertaining. Well that probably isn't possible, but at least give the guy credit for the knockout and for not being the chief offender this time. I really think Oquendo's goal was to wear Ruiz down by outwrestling and and out-jabbing him, so he was the Ruiz in that fight.
Andy Marks/Virginia
It’s a low period. Boxing will survive, it always does. However, when Joe Louis retired, the two best contenders – Ezzard Charles and Jersey Joe Walcott – fought to see who would succeed him. Same thing for Marciano when Floyd Patterson and Archie Moore fought. If Holmes had never fought Ali, he would’ve eventually had to be accepted as the linear champ on the merits of what he did. If Vitali wins and makes a couple defenses against top ten guys and is impressive, I think that’s enough of an argument for him succeeding Lewis. But right now it’s a vacuum so anybody looking remotely good – and Vitali is the sole dominant figure – is tabbed as the ‘successor."
FYI Byrd wasn’t 195 for Vitali, he was 212.
THANK GOD FOR THE LITTLE GUYS
You wrote: "Let’s just hope Wright-Mayorga doesn’t end up on a Ruiz under card."
I agree 100%! That's my fear that DK knowing how despised Ruiz is would stick this "Poster Boy" of this Dark Period in Heavyweight history on cards that people really want to see. I live in NYC and I want to support MSG Boxing but if Ruiz is on the card it makes it tough. I had the misfortune of seeing the Ruiz - Rahman fight and all I can say, thank God for Mayorga - Spinks and the other fights.
Dave Castro
Yup. Given King’s stable of fighters – and how Vitali, Tyson, and James Toney aren’t in it – you may be stuck with Ruiz on those cards for a while.
MORE NADY-JONES-RUIZ THEORIES
You give Jones credit for nullifying Ruiz's jab and grab style, but I think credit should go to Jay Nady, who (I surmise) was urged to protect Jones from the nasty side of John Ruiz's style. The favoritism shown to Jones was very obvious - compare this Ruiz fight to any other. Ruiz complained loudly that he was not allowed to fight his fight, as he is against everyone else I've seen him in with. I think King had a lot to do with the ref’s firmness in dealing with Ruiz's tactics, no doubt hoping to woo Jones into his stable. Had Ruiz been allowed to maul Jones as he was eager to do, it would have been a very different and totally less satisfying fight.
Jeremy Jacob
Vancouver, BC
Jay Nady was not wooed by King. The guy is so square that he doesn’t even smile when you complement him on a good job. Remember when Zab Judah grabbed his throat? Nady just leaned back and tried to evade, even though he was well within his rights to shove or swing in his defense. The guy is a cucumber. King didn’t "get to him." Nady is the last guy who’d take a bribe.
The problem with Ruiz’ offense – and I use that term loosely – is that it’s become like Holyfield’s accidental-on-purpose head butts. People know what’s going to happen, and some refs let it go uncalled because it’s part of a fighter’s "style." Nady doesn’t, and that’s why he shut down the rough stuff with Ruiz from the drop.
Plus I just like Nady because he doesn’t have a frivolous tagline, such as "I’m fair but I’m firm," or "What I say, you must obey," etc. He doesn’t want to be noticed or bring any attention to himself whatsoever. He just wants to do his job, and leave quietly. He doesn’t encourage a fighter to get up while counting a knockdown (as Steve Smoger did in the Mount Whitaker-Lou Savarese bout with Lou). He doesn’t call fouls when a fighter bitches, as Ruiz did to Cortez, seeming to get breaks a plenty. That’s a good ref. Ever since Mills Lane, certain refs are trying to bring "personality" and flair to the job, and there’s no place for it as the third man in the ring. The ref should be someone you never notice unless there’s a legit foul or a knockdown.
TYSON: WILL HE SAVE US FROM RUIZ?
RUIZ SUCKS. That’s why King was calling out for Tyson actually he was crying out for him. Marquez will come up big against the Pac-Man
Jose Rivas
I like Marquez in a great fight. And as much as I’d like to see Tyson-Ruiz, I’d prefer not to. Mike’s lawsuit against King could be far more entertaining.
E-Mail Jason Probst at jasonprobst@hotmail.com
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