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 Pound-for-Pound Poll
By Steve Kim (May 29, 2004)
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With the recent shake-ups that have upset the boxing hierarchy, who now can claim the mythical title of 'pound-for-pound'?
You've heard the opinions of Doug Fischer and myself, and trust me, we've heard from you guys out there. But we realize that our lists are just that, ours and ours alone. So what is the consensus on this whole debate?
With that in mind, MaxBoxing took a poll of some respected boxing analysts: Larry Merchant (HBOSports), Graham Houston (Boxing Monthly), Kevin Iole(Las Vegas Review Journal), Steve Farhood (Showtime, Boxing Monthly, Boxinginsider.com), Teddy Atlas (ESPN2) and Johnnie Whitehead (The Ring and KO magazines).
There are many definitions of the term, but perhaps Atlas put it best in describing what goes into defining 'pound-for-pound'.
"I go into three or four elements," he said. "One is technique, the ability to adjust to difficult styles. How well do you know how to fight? Number two is talent, how much talent do you have? How much God-given ability do you have to go with that technique? Number three, the caliber of guys you fight. Without that you don't know how good the guy is and how much he behaves like a champion. Number four would be longevity. How long has he been able to perform at a top, commendable level?"
Here are the results:
1- Bernard Hopkins (58 points): 'The Executioner' was tabbed numero uno by our panelists largely on the strength of his longevity and consistency for the past decade, barely edging out Floyd Mayweather Jr.
"It's a couple of things," explained Merchant. "One is 17 defenses and counting. The other thing is, I think his domination and knockout of Trinidad, who was a great fighter and ranked in the top three pound-for-pound at that time, is to me a more significant win than the two or three best wins of Mayweather. But I think Mayweather is the obvious heir apparent and his time will come."
Houston adds, "He's like a winning machine and he had his career defining win when he outclassed 'Tito' Trinidad."
Atlas sums it up like this, "Longevity, versatility with styles and a defining win over Trinidad."
2- Floyd Mayweather (56 points): There was a common theme to this voting - if Hopkins wasn't the top guy, it was 'The Pretty Boy'. And if it wasn't his time yet, it will be soon. The most consistent aspect of this voting was that all the pollsters voted these two either first or second.
"I've felt that for the last several years it was Mayweather and not Jones who is number one," said Iole. "He is an incredibly smart fighter, is proving to be strong, has a better chin than many give him credit for and his incredible speed/quickness is what gives him the narrow margin over Hopkins."
"He has already been dominant at two weight classes and would be favored over virtually every junior welter," said Farhood, who voted Mayweather second.
But Whitehead, citing Mayweather's resume, had him on top.
"The most underrated pound-for-pound fighter of the past five years. Look at his resume, and compare it to any top fighter on anyone's pound-for-pound list. Mayweather has fought and beaten every serious threat convincingly and he's continued to do so moving up in weight. Attitude, TV style, and outside the ring distractions are irrelevant. Skill + accomplishment + longevity + intangibles = number one pound-for-pound."
3- Antonio Tarver (44 points): 'The Magic Man' came onto the fringes of these lists with his strong performance against Roy Jones Jr. in November. Now, with his one-punch knockout of Jones in the rematch, he has catapulted into the elite.
" The Man who beat the Man," is the way Farhood put it.
But to others he's still a bit unproven. “Doesn’t have the volume of accomplishments as the others (only 24 pro fights) but it's the way he has won that elevates him," explains Whitehead, who ranked him fifth. "He knocked out Eric Harding, a tough Philadelphia fighter who'd never been stopped, then chokes Superman, Roy Jones, until he's all blue via-second round KO. Despite what the RJ faithful say, that KO was not by accident."
Iole agrees with Farhood. "You have to give it to the man who beat the man. Tarver doesn't have as many tricks in his bag as Hopkins and he's not as quick or savvy as Mayweather. Still, that's like choosing between Ray Lewis and Lawrence Taylor. He's the real deal."
4- Erik Morales (34 points): For years it seemed 'El Terrible' was overlooked in this debate, but after years of moving up in weight and winning titles, he's
now getting his just due.
"Very steady, very consistent fighter who just keeps winning," said Houston, who ranked him third. "When he's hurt he comes right back at the other man. Champ at three weights, just one loss, which was debatable; you can't knock his achievements. But Morales looked a bit worn, I thought, against Jesus Chavez and may have peaked."
Atlas says, "Showed he can box, not just slug and he's been on top for a while and with good fighters." Atlas ranked him seventh, which perhaps makes Farhood correct when he says about Morales, "Still underrated, if that's possible." Farhood would rank him fourth.
5- Winky Wright (33 points): Winky was right all along; all he needed was a chance to show what he can do against a marquee fighter. By easily besting Shane Mosley in March, he is now considered among the game's best.
"Consistent," is the way Atlas, who has him at number three, describes him. "The best kept secret for many years; many people thought he beat Fernando Vargas years ago."
Whitehead says of Wright, "Longevity. Skill. Chin. Consistency. Fights the best available opposition, then beats the number one guy in the division (Shane Mosley)."
But will this be as high as Wright can ascend on this polls?
"Progress is slowed by the fact that the superstars still view him as high risk-low reward," says Farhood, who ranked him sixth.
6- Tie, Oscar De La Hoya and Roy Jones (21 points): Two of the biggest names of the past decade share the sixth spot. There's a definite contrast in attitude among the pollsters as to why each is there.
"Should be fighting to regain the top spot in September," says Farhood of De La Hoya, who has his impending showdown with Hopkins to look forward to if he beats Felix Sturm on June 5.
Others laud 'The Golden Boy' for taking on the best. "Longevity and caliber of fighters he fights," cites Atlas, for putting him fifth on his poll. "He fights the best."
The attitude on Jones is mixed, and only one voter had Jones has high as number five. That would be Merchant.
"I think fifth is fair," he explains. "Based on one fight, I don't remember a time where a guy was number one and just fell out of the top ten. Even when Mosley was number one and he lost to Forrest, I think he went down to around fifth or sixth."
But others penalize him on getting knocked out so brutally and wonder about its effects.
"Given his aversion to accepting punishment," wonders Farhood, who put him eighth, "Who knows what psychological affects the Tarver fight will have."
And others question just how much he has really accomplished.
"Still one of the great talents we've seen this past generation," says Atlas, who also put him eighth, "although he hasn't had wins over big names recently. He had James Toney and Bernard Hopkins, but to me, you gotta put a little asterisk next to them because Toney was dead at the weight and Bernard, 12 years ago, was a different fighter. He was green, he wasn't as mature as he was today."
And it wasn't that he lost to Tarver, but the manner in which it happened.
"I agree with Emmanuel Steward," says Houston, who also ranks him at number eight. "If Jones were to retire tomorrow, what people would remember would be Roy going on the floor against Tarver."
Geez, what 'haters', huh?
8- Manny Pacquiao (18.5 points) - If he would've been able to finish off Juan Manuel Marquez in the first round, 'The Pac Man' would have been rated much higher.
"Not as polished, but makes up for a one-dimensional attack with a rare combination of power AND speed," says Whitehead, who still has him at three. "Has moved up in weight, fought the best and beat them. Can't ask for more."
"With his speed, power and urgency of attack, I think 'The Pac Man' could have given even the legendary champs of the past a few problems. A 112-pound champ, champ at 122 pounds and then the 'people's champ' at 126, he's got the pedigree, too," says Houston, who placed him at number nine.
But it's ironic that Iole, who seems a bit more critical of Pacquiao than Houston, has him at eight.
"You should win when you knock your opponent down three times in the first round and Pacquiao didn't," he says. "But who out there other than Marquez can beat him? Few have his combination of speed, power and yep, cojones."
9- Juan Manuel Marquez (17.5 points): It's appropriate given their draw a few weeks back that Marquez and Pacquiao are so closely tied in this poll. "A very good, well-schooled, hard-working ring mechanic," is the way Houston describes him. "Not what you'd call brilliant in any one area but he boxes well, punches well, catches well, and in fact he does everything well. And after the way he came back from calamity against Pacquiao, which was one of the gamest fight-backs in year, quite incredible in fact, I couldn't leave him out."
Houston placed both feathers in a dead heat at nine.
Atlas agrees with Houston, also placing him ninth. "I know some people are going to cry because he got dropped three times with Pacquiao but there's two reasons why I'm not afraid to keep him there. One, you take that that first round and some people think he won the fight easy. And two, to survive that round and to have done the other things he's done, I think that holds him pretty well."
"On my card, he won nine of the twelve rounds against Pacquiao," adds Iole, who has him at six. "After rallying from that first round in which he got knocked
down three times, he proved his heart."
10- Kostya Tszyu (11 points): It seems that most of our pollsters have forgotten about Tsyzu, who hasn't fought for about a year-and-a-half. But even with that absence, it's hard to overlook his overall achievements.
"He's questionable simply because he hasn't fought in such a long time," says Merchant, who has him tenth. "But I think that Tszyu's been so strong and so good over time that I have to give him that recognition."
"We need a reminder," says Farhood, who has him ninth. "And a convincing win over Sharmba Mitchell would serve that purpose."
But Houston, despite his prolonged layoff, still holds Tszyu in high regard, at number six.
"A very steady, very strong fighter, incredibly hard worker in training, who knows how to break down the faster, flashier types. Lots of wins in title fights.
A long layoff and late-career injuries could leave him vulnerable when he finally gets back in the ring, but on what he's accomplished, he deserves a spot around the middle of the top ten."
HOW THEY VOTED
Johnnie Whitehead- 1. Mayweather 2- Hopkins 3-Pacquiao 4- Marquez 5- Tarver 6- Wright 7- Jones 8-Morales 9- De La Hoya 10- Sharmba Mitchell
Larry Merchant- 1- Hopkins 2- Mayweather 3- Tarver 4-Morales 5- Jones 6- Wright 7- Shane Mosley 8- De La Hoya 9- Pacquiao 10- Tszyu
Steve Farhood- 1- Hopkins 2- Mayweather, 3- Tarver 4-Morales 5- Pacquiao 6- Wright 7- De La Hoya 8- Jones 9- Tszyu 10- Rafael Marquez
Graham Houston- 1- Hopkins 2- Mayweather 3- Morales 4-Tarver 5- De La Hoya 6- Tszyu 7- Wright 8- Jones 9-Tie- Pacquiao and Marquez
Kevin Iole- 1- Mayweather 2- Hopkins 3- Tarver 4-Morales 5- Wright 6- Marquez 7- Cory Spinks 8-Pacquiao 9- Jones 10- James Toney
Teddy Atlas - 1- Hopkins 2- Mayweather 3- Wright 4-Tarver 5- De La Hoya 6- Tszyu 7- Morales 8- Jones 9-Marquez 10- Oscar Larios
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